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A young"ish" Buckminster Fuller and a flexible skin geodesic dome about the time he taught at Black Mountain College!

Please come over and see my comments and photos on my other blog "When I Was 69." And sometimes I have some ancestry information on the blog "Three Family Trees."

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Friday, August 4, 2017

Is she a grandmother or an aunt, or both?

English female clothing 1550
Is Elizabeth Rogers married to Thomas Ayers and my 10th-time-great grandmother...or my 12-times great-aunt, depending upon whose ancestry line I look at!
I'm glad I don't have my grandmother and grandfather on the same tree, in this case, because only one set of dates/marriages would have appeared...that's one of the foibles of Ancestry.  If a lot of trees say one thing, it's considered fact.  Not necessarily!  

So my grandfather's tree (GER) has a line going back to Rev. John Rogers, the Martyr, (1506-1554) and further.  His son Bernard (1543-1609) would be my 12-times-great grandfather.

And Bernard's sister, Elizabeth Rogers (1553-1634), (perhaps the last child of Rev. John Rogers the Martyr) who married James Proctor. She would have been my 12-times-great aunt on my grandfather, George Rogers' tree (GER)....not a direct ancestor!

Historic background: Rev. John Rogers was a proponent of protestantism, and helped translate a version of the Bible into English along with other early translators (who weren't burned).  He gave a sermon denouncing the papacy and other anti-Catholic opinions to an audience including Queen Mary, the Catholic.

Wife and family watching first martyr of Queen Mary's reign, Rev. John Rogers being burned at the stake.

Source maybe 9th edition of the famous Protestant martyrology, Fox's Book of Martyrs

Rev. John Rogers the Martyr - burned at the stake by Bloody Mary (Queen briefly from 1553-1558) the Catholic Queen who wanted England to return to Catholicism, before Elizabeth went back to protestantism that her father Henry VIII started so he could maybe have a legitimate son with one of his many wives. (I know there were other forces at work, and this is a simplistic description!)

People!  Really!  And we worry about a President of the US these days who acts childishly.  We could easily cite Henry VIII's actions, which I dare say Trump would like to enact as well.

New information on Ancestry:

OK, now I've been looking at my grandmother's tree (AS) and I have recently read one part of a privately published biography which assures some descendants that Elizabeth Rogers 
(now 1549-1612) married Thomas Ayers(Eyre) and their son John Ayer (1587/90-1657) immigrated to Salisbury, Massachusetts in 1637.  There he writes a will in 1657 leaving his goods to his wife Hannah and their children born in America. This is the book title: Ancestors of Silas Ayers and Mary Byram Ayers : including the Alden, Ayers and Byram families, published by Ancestry.

Yes in this new biography Elizabeth Rogers Ayers had no son, Capt. John Thomas Ayers who married a least in their book!  Their interests were in a line of Ayers, not Swaseys.  The Swasey's also published a book, with their surname in lines of descendants. (AS)

Following back further on AS tree, this Elizabeth Rogers (1549-1612) is also listed daughter of martyr Rev. John Rogers, (1507-1555)  Here she's possibly my 10th times-great grandmother.  The dates put her in the same generation, but marrying Thomas Ayers rather than someone by the name of Proctor (GER).  On this tree (AS) Mrs. Thomas (Elizabeth Rogers) Ayers doesn't live as long, but her son John Thomas Ayers, captain, comes to Ipswich in New England by 1622 and connects to my grandmother's Swasey line. I tend to believe this information over the newly discovered (to me) family biography which is actually also now available on the AS tree. I just haven't added it yet, and am keeping the biography as a source of information, yet to be proven true.

As always, the women in history were not given much information.  Someone lived and gave birth to the children, and maybe her first name was recorded, but not always who her parents were.  

I just upgraded my Ancestry subscription so I can read documents from other countries.  This is the source of this new information.

Are you confused yet? Me too.

Which one is true?  Ah, in these days of Fake News, I know not.

So for now I'm looking at this information with a grain of salt.  

Or let's say I'm not letting it get my goat!

Which is how I'm linking all this to Sepia Saturday this week...(though it's a stretch!)

I'm mainly mad that all the data and photos I'd collected for Rev. Rogers the Martyr were recently deleted from my tree.  I only opened my Rogers tree for public use when I had my DNA test done, and in that few days someone added a lot of cousins and their photos, and apparently took off some of the data I'd collected.  I've made my tree private again so others can't make changes to it!  My choice has always been to have only photos of those in my direct line, not of all the cousins.  That's how I know someone else had added them.

I at least went to my Rogers cousin's version of our family tree and copied back the photos of the data for Rev. Rogers.  I can't edit things there, but can see them!  Thanks Pat!

I refuse to get another headache from Ancestry.  But do you know how many hours I've spent looking at this particular patch of our tree? Way too many! 


  1. Sorry about all the cut/paste different backgrounds. That just shows how many times I changed what I was saying in hopes it made some sense. Don't let it get your goat either!

  2. That all sounds extremely complicated. I use Ancestry for records but not for the trees, because people just copy from each other and it's even worse if they can change what you put up on your tree. So lucky you can trace that far back, it's pretty much impossible unless your ancestors were nobility as yours clearly were. Love your link to the prompt!

    1. Thanks Jo...there are definitely good records available for back before the 1940s mainly. I didn't have royals who came to America, and that's where it began to be confusing!

  3. all these Sepian puns! "Not letting it get my goat..." You've certainly managed to get it back to the goats, eh! Love it! (And good luck with all those Ancestry posts...I have the same issues!)

    1. And if you might know someone who raises any livestock, they are also interested in their ancestry...I do believe!

  4. Digging down that deep on the family tree roots sure gets your hands dirty! In my research I've rarely needed to find anyone before 1800, so I'm very impressed with family history that goes to the 1500s. Occasionally I'll find a useful family tree on but I've learned to double-triple check sources as they can often be mistaken about references.

    1. I like your use of newspaper accounts Mike. Which service do you use for that?

  5. Thats a really exciting possibility regarding John Rogers.As Mike says,to be able to go that far back into your Line is amazing.Good Luck with further search.
    The comparison between Henry 8 & Trump 1 isnt far off the mark....both men with powerful self-regarding Skills!

  6. Wait a minute? Are you telling me people can change my tree on Ancestry? How would they be able to do that? I only signed up within the past year and had never heard about this. It's got me worried because I've allowed the tree to be public so I could find other relatives. But the idea of someone making changes is just so very wrong.

  7. I haven't had anyone change my tree on ancestry. I thought you had to make someone an editor before that could happen. Or is your tree on Family Search? Anyway, many of those trees on sncestry just copy bad information from each other, more sure doesn't mean true.

    1. Yes, I've found Ancestry is rampant with nonsense. I've found some very bizarre things such as some woman claiming my grandmother was married to someone else. I tried to set them straight, but they are happily remaining ignorant.

  8. How annoying. I don't use Ancestry, but I do use a couple of others and I keep mine private for that very reason. I can see why you had a diffcut decision to make - tossed on the horns of a......(not a goat).l


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